// WordPress Users: Are You Being Ripped Off?
// Mar 24th, 2008 & filed under WordPress
As some of you may be aware by now, I’m in the process of creating my first real ‘premium’ WordPress theme. Going in this direction has caused me to ask a lot of questions, and do a little research.
As a kind of disclaimer, let me just say, I’m not against people making money from the WordPress platform. If they are contributing to the community by giving people what they want, then why not make money at it too? No one is forcing people to pay out their hard earned cash, so their services/products must be worth it. Aren’t they?
This is what I’ve been really battling with. Are ‘premium’ WordPress themes really worth the price tag that’s often placed on them? All WordPress users by now, have a fair idea who the ‘big players’ are in this market. Just browse around for a while, and you’ll find their affiliate banner ads all over the place. What I find really difficult to figure out, is, what is it people are really paying $70 - $100 for?
As far as I can tell, it comes down to four things:
- Design - people think it’s worthwhile to fork out the cash for the superior design.
- Layout - it’s worth paying money for a ‘magazine’ style theme.
- Features - all those built-in plugins, and admin options make it worth it.
- Support - I can get help when I want it, and I’ll get answers to my problems.
It must be either one, or all of the above, which makes people buy these premium themes. But, here’s the problem as I see it:
- The reality on design - I only know of one premium theme design, which is equal to or better than something you could get for free, and it’s not even designed by one of the well known ‘premium theme’ designers.
- The reality on layout - Magazine style themes are not working. I only know of one site which has benefited from moving from a regular blog layout, and adopting a magazine style layout, and it’s because they post about three times / day, and have a tens of thousands of daily visitors.
- The reality on features - If it’s features you’re after, Justin Tadlock’s Options theme has more than you could shake a stick at, and it’s free.
- The reality on support - Again, many designers of free themes, offer equal support to the premium alternatives.
So what are you paying for?
As I was researching this, I came across a poll conducted by Small Potato, which asked this question: “How Much Would You Pay for a WordPress Theme?”
The poll was conducted just shy of one year ago, and the results and comments are highly interesting. SP decided to break it into two polls, one dealing with unique designs, the other for a non exclusive designs.
Considering premium themes are not unique, I’m only concerned with the results from that particular poll. Here are the results;
- $20 (36%)
- $5 (28%)
- $10 (19%)
- $45 (17%)
The results are obviously primarily concerned with design and code (not features and support). It was taken that, if one was to buy a non-unique theme, then it would have to be extremely different from the huge free selection which is available for WordPress, and that it would have to be extremely good. Even being extremely good, simply because it’s not unique, most people are not prepared to pay too much, and I’m not surprised.
How I see it…
So here’s the thing. Let’s say a premium design is $100 (for a round figure), and the people who voted on that poll, all bought a premium theme (using them as a general representation of the WordPress community), 28% (over 1 in 4) of them would be paying $95 dollars just for … for … Features? Support? What? I’m not sure.
Interestingly…
If you read the comments on that post, you’ll find a comment by premium theme advocate, Adii. If you follow Adii, then you may have a good chuckle to yourself like I did,
“Sheesh, the prices that are being thrown around here are insane! Being a WP designer myself, I normally charge between $50 - $125 for a generic, unique WP theme. For more advanced WP work, I get paid about $200 as a freelancer. So anything above that, seems well excessive.”
How a year can change things, eh? Now he’s selling non-unique designs, for the same as he was selling unique designs for this time last year. [Nice business growth my friend].
My point
The reason I’m throwing this out to the community, is because I think you’re maybe getting ripped off. The guys creating these premium WordPress themes aren’t yet offering anything remotely as attractive as the Joomla community has, and on top of that, they are more expensive!
So, what am I to do? Considering I have absolutely no doubt that the premium theme I am hoping to release, is far superior to the vast majority of premium themes out there (it’s going to rock your socks!!), should I sell it for $79.95 - $99.95, or should I release it for less than that?
Poll
Some of you may have your thoughts, but you don’t want to leave a comment. Therefore, here’s a poll. I hope you all take part, so we can all learn more about the thoughts of the WordPress community. Obviously, things may change in the future, but in your opinion, do you think the current offering of premium WordPress themes, which are retailing for $80-$100, are too expensive?
I’m curious what kind of examples you would use to show the Joomla! Community has far more attractive templates versus the premium WordPress themes out there?
On the subject of money… just consider this: I were to go to any website builder non-related to WordPress (and Joomla! for that matter) I would easily have to pay way over a $ 1000,- to get me a decent working CMS powered website (and yes I do consider WordPress to be a CMS, not as extensively as Joomla! but nonetheless)
If you look at it from that perspective, a $ 100,- is really not that much for a highly customizable premium theme.
So my definition of a premium theme is that it should have a lot functions built in, be highly customizable and have an attractive pricing so I can use it to help my clients.
I do realize this is only one perspective to look at it though…
offtopic: I really love the ‘edit your comment’ plugin you use here. Where can I find it?
This is kinda making me feel iffy — I’m making some web designs, mostly for Wordpress, for sites that I think diserve it, but havent got the resources to buy or make thier own, and on top of that, the designs are completely exclusive and dont cost a dime.
Yet some guys are selling Wordpress themes for $100 — making a comparison to full website design is all fine and dandy, but just because someone charges $1,000+ for a COMPLETE, EXCLUSIVE website doesnt justify a $125 Wordpress theme which several other sites could be using.
If I did attach a price to one of my themes, I’d make sure I did a damn good one, and it wouldnt be priced above $100 — if I were to make a full website, with a phpBB forum, and Drupal front end, both with exclusive designs, then maybe I would charge $800-$1000, but only because editing the templates and coding the CSS for Drupal and phpBB is so time consuming and large-scale in comparison to, for example, Wordpress.
What sways me back however, is that people are willing to buy these designs, its their choice to accept the price, which means while it may bother us designers, who know how much work goes into making a theme, the client seems quite happy to fork out $100 for a theme.
And Remkus, I cant speak for the Joomla community as I havent checked their themes, but styling Joomla is a much more extensive task than styling Wordpress, so the free Joomla skinners out their do deserve credit for doing harder work for nothing I think.
@ Norlick: My point is and was that if you consider a price for about $ 100,- for ( my definition of) a premium theme, which I then can customize completly to the clients liking and thus having a unique design, I think the price is just right.
As for Joomla! styling.. I know it’s a lot more difficult to skin those, but that was not my point. I was curious to what Joomla! design examples are being referred to by Armen as more attractive
Glad to see the conversation has begun while I was away
Remkus - Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
The Joomla community have Rocket Theme and YooTheme which have some extremely attractive layouts available for a very affordable price.
If you’re using a premium theme for clients, doesn’t that mean you need to purchase a developer package? In which case, you’d be easily paying more than double the single license package. However, in such a case, I think it’s only right to be charging a heftier price. I wouldn’t like to think someone was buying a single use license, and using the structure of the theme to code their client related projects.
Again, the post is primarily to invoke discussion, not to create enemies. I want genuine opinions.
You can get the edit comment plugin here.
Norlick - I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable my friend. I’m here just about to release something which I’m challenging. However, I would be careful how you ‘charity’ your work. It’s not necessary, and if someone isn’t prepared to save a little for a custom design (or even a premium theme), then I don’t take them very seriously. You either realise that you can get away with a free theme (which many do i.e. Skellie), or you save and fork out the cash.
A project which is mutually beneficial is different though. If doing one or two free jobs is going to give you huge exposure, then it may be worth it.
Anyway, getting back on track, I feel the same as you. If people are willing to pay, then why should I be worried?
In terms of setting your own price, just understand that it’s much easier to start high and then decrease if it’s incorrect, than it is to start low and increase it later.
Cory - Good point. It always looks better too. It’s what all those Internet Marketing gurus do I suppose, telling people it’s worth ‘X’, but for a limited time you can get it for ‘x’.
ByFolio is an interesting project you’ve set up there Cory.
For a business or entrepreneur/professional looking to get some kind of blog established, $100 is absolute peanuts! If for that price you get some degree on customisation, whether that is just a header graphic and colour theme is fine, and some kind of technical one-on-on consultation/development from the designer then it’s a good price and a fair price for both the designer and customer. I certainly wouldn’t advise going any lower - you are completely undervaluing yourself.
Pricing always needs to be viewed from a business perspective. Not how much time and value do I place on this product, but how much value will the customer place on it.
Aaron - I agree. There are a certain class of people like you mentioned, who would see $100 as literally nothing. But, I don’t know about all the other premium theme developers, but I think you’d be crazy to throw in any customisation work for that price. I don’t mind creating a theme and selling it for (example) $80, but it would be impossible to customise the themes for that price.
“…how much value will the customer place on it.”
I suppose that is business, isn’t it? But then, when you’re claiming to do it for the ‘community’ more than for ‘business’, maybe it’s different?
Thanks for your comment Aaron, definitely food for thought. Good to see you’re still blogging. I haven’t been on your site in a while.
Good topic!
Think it depends on the theme and capability of stylizing it. As you have mentioned Options theme is free but if you create something better than that, then it would be worth buying.
I think support is best. Upgrades and customized Plugins also should NOT cost anything.
When you put it like that, it does make me kinda question continuing the charity route :/
Thinking about it further, the reason is feels like we’re ripping people off is probably because we ourselves wouldnt pay anything for a Wordpress theme — we’d just make it ourself.
So I guess in terms of convenience, $100 is better than learning the CSS, xHTML, Javascript and Photoshoppery required to make your own Wordpress theme.
“but I think you’d be crazy to throw in any customisation work for that price. I don’t mind creating a theme and selling it for (example) $80, but it would be impossible to customise the themes for that price.”
Armen - Sure, when I say ‘customisation’ I mean it in the loosest possible sense. Maybe a 15 minute tweak of the colour scheme to match the clients corporate colours, a quick discussion about what kind of plugins you want and have those installed, whether you want full posts, truncated posts - that kind of thing.
I just think if I’m paying $100 then I don’t want to have to do anything - I just want it to work and I’ll want to feel that $100 was worth it and I have got something more than what any of the billions of free themes offer.
– Yup, I am still blogging - although havnt been posting much but trying to keep on top of reading others. I have a new blog launching in the next couple of weeks so keep your eyes peeled.
Jermayn -Yeah. I wanted to bring this out into the open, and get a few honest opinions.
Aesthetically, Options isn’t really offering that much. If Justin could work on his designing ability, he’d be able to make a packet from his work.
Norlick - Yes, that’s the thing. (I’m glad this discussion is helping more than just myself).
I suppose premium themes are really making life a lot easier for people. Although they’re buying a design which is the same as many others can get their hands on, it’s professional and impressive.
Aaron - Yeah, I suppose that may be possible. However, if a theme really takes off, that could be difficult if everyone wanted it. I think forum support is as good as one can do.
Remember to let me know about your new site. Leave a comment on here or email me when it goes live.
I would study PHP and CSS and build my own wordpress theme before I buy any theme, if only I have got time. Those WP themer are just not as generous as Matt.
Thanks for the nod Armen. I do think I need to focus more on design now. Creating something like Options forces you to shift too much focus to coding.
You’re definitely right about Joomla offering much better templates at much better prices. They’ve got the business model down too, and I think it would work great within the WP community. Users here don’t want to pay a lot for themes, and rightly so.
I’ve always thought that paying $100 for a theme was too much, unless you’re paying for the support. Support is the biggest thing to consider when paying for any theme.
There are many developers that have great designs and semantic code in their free themes. All it would take to make your free copy unique is putting in a few hours learning CSS. That’s why building a community around your themes helps — it allows users to share their experiences with designing.
As far as custom design pricing goes, I’m charging at least $500 for a unique design, which is never really “unique” because the client usually wants something that’s like another site and I can’t convince them to go another route.
I’ve always liked your designs and look forward to this release. My advice is to push the support because that’s what users ultimately need.
ket - Matt is making his money, don’t worry
Justin - I really appreciate your thoughts my friend. Particularly because I consider you to be a key player in all this ‘premium theme’ business.
Your theme releases have really pushed the boundary for those wanting to make money at it. However, sometimes I think you’re undervalued, simply because you give your work away.
If you were willing, I would consider collaborating with you. I’ll handle aesthetics, and you handle the code
I’d love to work on a project together sometime, just not anytime soon. I’ve got too many projects I’m working on to handle as it is. Maybe sometime in the future, when things settle down a bit.
As you said, I do give my work away. However, I do have plans to make a few bucks with WordPress themes. Right now, I’m kind of keeping this top secret because I’m not entirely sure what direction I want to take it. I will say that it’ll be something new to the community in a lot of ways.
Premium? What are the rules to define a “premium” theme as it?
WP codes “cut and pasted” from the codex site wrapped in a bunch of divs defined through the CSS.
Any new WP php codes that are not listed somewhere on the web?
From my point of view those themes are just like any other better coded free GPL theme spiced up with special CSS and codex php codes.
Why should anyone pay hundred and more bucks for a “premium” theme if a brilliant WP theme like Derek’s Unstandard theme is free of charge and is enhanced with new ways of custom fields via CSS?
Justin - Give me a shout any time my friend. I’m looking forward to seeing what you have up your sleeve.
Milo - I totally see where you’re coming from. Nevertheless, the reality is, there is something in the premium themes, which are causing people to buy them. No one is forcing anyone to make a purchase, but they’re buying anyway.
If people get what they want, and both sides are happy, then I suppose that’s all that really matters.
Great to read your post. My comment comes from someone that is developing a new site for our podcast. So I am looking for a theme - I am no developer or anything like that.
Basically we looked at 100’s of themes and we just could not find something that we liked and had an edge. So we thought surely a premium WP theme would give us a few things: These are the things that we thought we would get (or at least the major ones)
1. A theme that had an edge, was unique and because of that has a certain appeal.
- I do have a few developers that help me out though)
2. Great code, easily customized. But the hope that a lot of features inherent to the theme were in widget form. For example: change the featured video within a sidebar - automatically changed on the homepage. (remember I have basic coding skills
3. Works out of the box. Minimal tweaking to get something that looks good.
4. That what I have to do to change stuff doesn’t require a masters in PHP, CSS et.al.
5. If point 4 is true then make sure your instructions are simple to follow and idiot proof. (Justin Tadlock - you are setting the example - not that your theme’s are hard to modify thanks to widgets - but you have satisfied the latter - idiot proof)
Now I am not an idiot and I have been working with WordPress for a few years as a user. These are the the things that we as users are looking for. We are not coders - we want your theme because we are not coders - if we could code we would make our own - so don’t code them for coders (just a word of advice). We can get there with a bit of support - but for me it was the functionality and look that I was and am willing to pay for. When you weigh up the life of the blog the support is a very, very small part. The look and function is what you are left with.
I did recently buy a theme and it was a total disaster. Bad code. Broke posts and categories. Hard to configure. The instructions were not clear. I felt like a total idiot. I had to pay someone to tell me not to bother with it - it was a crap theme. I blew 80 bucks and I ain’t making anything here folks!
I am not sure what the intent of my comment is, but I want coders to understand that us users will pay for themes. We want to get that great looking and functional site that we could not get otherwise. That is why we will pay 80 bucks - and I am thinking of doing it again! Either that or we will use Justin’s Options theme - your right Justin - some work on how it looks would be great
What I would have liked to have seen in the preview of the theme that ripped me off? Some detailed tutorials (there were some and we were lead to believe that it was easy to do - and that it would work when we did what it said. That however was bullshit and it was crap ambiguous instructions that when you have about 500 lines of code in front of you were useless). I would have liked to have seen some screenshots of the back end options. How easy is it to change basic functions - is it a click of the button or am I hard coding shit hit and miss till it works - and then maybe never? What about a dummy login that allows users to log in and look? I don’t know if this is possible - they might lift the code. But the screenshots are a must. What am I getting for my money
What would I pay? I would pay about 60-80 bucks for a theme that fitted the bill (see above). Now I am left to spend that and some since I blew my last 80 bucks - so I will spend what the wife says I can. Although I am revisiting the free alternatives. I don’t want to be ripped off again. And I don’t want another person ripped off either. This responsibility rests with the developers and coders not me - I am the customer - the poor bloody customer who is playing Russian Roulette everytime we spend money for code. I am a poor podcaster who wants to look good - not a coder or developer. I do the best I can with my very average html skills that you pick up playing with WordPress nothing more.
It may seem stupid to people that can code why people want to pay for themes. But even if it is simple code - we can’t do it. They are not that common (because you have to pay for it) so you stand out a bit more than the rest. You want something that is well done and ready and not something that has to be hacked up. I don’t know if that is stupid or smart - from my perspective smart. I save a crap load of time, money and effort and I get a faster time to live site.
Great post and you have mentioned some great points that are worth considering by the potential customer. In addition this is my perspective on premium themes and what I am looking for. Thanks for reading my comment and I hope that it too helps others.